Scottish Social Security Consortium

Minutes of meeting: 21 November 2005

Present:

Anne Pollard, Department for Work and Pensions
Arthur McNulty, Department for Work and Pensions
Judith Paterson, Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland
Lindsay Isaacs, Citizens Advice Scotland
Louise Goulbourne, Citizens Advice Scotland
Stephanie Millar, Update
Susan Rew, One Parent Families (Scotland)
Colette Cummings, RNIB
Jo Whitfield, The Action Group

Apologies

David Brown (Help the Aged), Craig Dunlop (Shelter) and Craig Mackenzie (One Plus).

Welcome

Judith Paterson welcomed everyone to the meeting and introduced Anne Pollard and Arthur McNulty from the DWP.

Benefit implications of the new arrangements for same-sex couples to becomes civil partners

Anne Pollard from the Civil Partnerships Division explained the implications on benefits for same-sex couples. The Act will come into force on 5th December 2005. From then, lesbian and gay partners will be able to form legal civil partnerships and will have the same legal rights as married and cohabiting opposite-sex couples. Anne summarised the preparation work undertaken by the DWP in relation to customers, publicity and DWP staff.

In relation to claimants, the legislative reforms will mean that people in same-sex couples can expect to be treated equally with couples living together as husband and wife in regards to benefits and pensions. From 5th December, same-sex couples will be subject to joint treatment for means-tested benefits, which will be payable as for spouses and cohabiting opposite-sex couples. This means that some people in same-sex couples will lose or see a cut to their benefits. Using the couple applicable amount rather than twice the single applicable amount, together with combining a couple's income, is likely to result in a reduction in benefit. Guidance suggests that where two single people were previously passported to full HB/CTB, it would be reasonable to assume the passport will continue. However, where either one or both are getting standard HB they could see their HB reduced when assessed as a couple.

When applying for benefits, same-sex couples will be subject to the 'Living Together as Husband and Wife or as Civil Partners' test. To support this change in legislation, the DWP has updated learning tools and guidance to make them gender-neutral. They have redesigned the interview to ask some additional new questions. The interview has been piloted since April and is subject to ongoing evaluation. Support will remain in place through the Civil Partnership Division until March 2006.

Under the new legislation, any individuals of the same sex who are not members of the same family and are sharing accommodation would potentially be considered as living together as a couple. Decision makers will ask preliminary questions about the nature of the relationship and how the accommodation is shared, to determine which claims need further investigation. Cases that are not filtered out at the preliminary stage will be referred for an interview. The interview takes between one and two hours.

The onus is on the claimant to notify the DWP of a change in circumstance. The DWP have produced a leaflet in conjunction with the CAB service, which is available in the usual outlets. Information was circulated with a tax credit newsletter. The Civil Partnerships Division have attended DWP forums to raise awareness with partners, they have also attended PRIDE events to promote the changes to the legislation.

Judith Paterson asked if leaflets were available in registry offices. Anne said they were not, but, in terms of publicity for those registering for a civil partnership, a pack will be provided including information about benefits, and a pointer to the DWP. Couples would be expected to notify the DWP of a change in circumstance.

In relation to DWP staff, the emphasis has been on changes to terminology in forms, guidance, learning and development tools, leaflets and IT; changes to the 'Living Together as Husband and Wife' test which will apply to same-sex couples as from the 5th December, and to changes in the culture through a diversity video. A booklet has been produced with guidance and language which is offensive/inoffensive. Any complaints against DWP staff will be subject to the normal complaints procedure. IT changes will be complete by April 2006.

Guidance on the changes has been distributed with a Housing Benefit circular - A16/2005. It was agreed that Judith would circulate this with the minutes of the meeting.

HM Revenue and Customs has legislated for the changes in relation to tax credits. It is a notifiable change, so if people do not report it and are overpaid tax credits as a consequence, they will be repayable. However, the Revenue has indicated an intention to apply a 'light touch' in this area. In relation to benefits paid through the DWP, overpayments will be subject to the standard overpayment recoverability test - in other words, 'was it reasonable for this customer to know they should have reported a change?'. For instance, couples who do not register as civil partners might contest that they did not know they had any change to report, as it is the law that has changed, rather than their situation. If it is considered unreasonable that the claimant should have been expected to report a change, the overpayment will be acknowledged but not pursued. However, Judith Paterson noted current legal issues relating to the DWP's long-standing reasonableness test which might cause problems with its application.

In relation to Housing Benefit, the position is too complex for legislation. From 5th December, civil partners or same-sex couple living together who make a new claim should be treated as a couple from the outset. For existing claimants, there are transitional arrangements being introduced: these are explained in the HB/CTB circular which Judith will be circulating.

Judith Paterson raised a question about the impact on people who would, as a consequence of the changes, fall out of the benefits system. Anne explained that there would be nothing new apart from whatever was already in the system. Anne also mentioned The Employment Equality (Sexual Orientation) Regulations 2003 which prohibits offensive office banter.

Judith thanked Anne and Arthur.

Minutes of previous meeting and matters arising

The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed as an accurate record.

Jobcentre Plus action
Judith has arranged a visit to the contact centre. This visit is now subject to a new policy meaning that clearance has to be given by the office in Leeds. The visit has been agreed in principle.

Tax Credits
Lindsay Isaacs reported that CAS has finally been invited as a Scottish representative on to the Tax Credit Consultation Group, which has been meeting in London form some time now. Lindsay attended a meeting on 16 November and reported that it was a useful meeting with frank discussion. She asked the group to pass on anything they would like to be raised in advance of the next meeting in January.

Lindsay informed the group that, at the meeting of the tax credit consultation group, HM Revenue and Customs had informed everyone that they are hoping to publish a new version of COP26 (What happens if we've paid you too much tax credit) by the end of the year. This will include details of how the new suspension process will work if claimants dispute an overpayment. Lindsay also reported that, for the time being, if clients dispute an overpayment and have more than one overpayment, all the overpayments will be suspended. However, this is a temporary glitch. Next year, when the system is automated, only the specifically disputed overpayment will be suspended.

Information exchange

Welfare reform lobbying - David McNeish, CAS
David noted that the incapacity benefit (IB) green paper is now expected in January/February 2006. He noted that lobbying Westminster from Scotland can be difficult and resource-intensive, and therefore proposed that the members of the SSSC do some sort of joint campaign in this area. David noted that joint-working makes sense both practically and tactically, as it will mean more efficient use of resources and a stronger voice. There would also be opportunities for consortium members to engage in joint media work. He noted that he had already done some preliminary work in setting up meetings in London, and could undertake these as a representative of the SSSC and use them to lobby the consortium's agreed messages.

Colette Cummings from RNIB noted that Disability Agenda Scotland (which comprises RNIB, RNID, Capability Scotland, Enable and SAMH) is planning an event on 10 January relating to IB reform. IT was suggested that SSSC might be able to tie in with that. It was agreed that David would contact someone from DAS to see how the event is progressing and to discuss the possibility of joint working.

There was some discussion about specific Scottish issues that the SSSC should ensure are raised. In particular, group members felt that the issue of rural living needed to be highlighted - employment can often be hard to find in rural areas, and it its also harder/more expensive to fulfill obligations such as work-focused interviews.

Judith noted that the members of the SSSC have not often engaged in joint policy work. This should not be an obstacle, however, but the group does need to have a clear and focused agreement about how to take the work forward. There was a general consensus amongst the group members that joint working on IB reform was a good idea and, subject to a detailed agreement, that it should be taken forward.

It was agreed that a key aim should be to agree on the key issues that are shared amongst all the group members, and then distill this into a very punchy two-side briefing. It was agreed that David would write a first draft, and circulate it to the group by e-mail in advance of the next meeting.

Other issues

Judith added an item to the agenda to discuss the role of the SSSC. Judith reported that it had been running for four years and thought it might be sensible to review its remit. For instance, is the balance between policy and welfare rights issues correct? Group members reported positive things about the SSSC, such as:

• Joint policy work is particularly useful if there is nobody in the member's organisation with a specific policy remit
• Administration of the group is very efficient
• External speakers are very interesting
• The group helps to highlight forthcoming issues sooner rather than later
• Email contact is good, especially for members who cannot attend as many meetings as they would like

Judith commented that although the group has about 30 members, the numbers attending meetings has dwindled somewhat over the course of this year. It was agreed that Judith and Lindsay would work on some ideas to 'refresh' the group membership, such as a leaflet documenting some of the group's successes that could be issued to existing and prospective members. This could be sent to delegates attending the DWP's annual Scottish forum taking place at the end of the week. It was also agreed that a short questionnaire should be issued to establish if current contact details are correct and whether members are happy with the way meetings are held.

Dates and topics for future meetings

The following dates were agreed for 2006 meetings of the SCCC:

• Wednesday 22nd February - Glasgow
• Tuesday 9th May - Edinburgh
• Thursday 28th September - Glasgow
• Monday 20th November - Edinburgh

All the meetings start at 1pm.

The following were agreed as possible topics for future meetings:

• Welfare reform
• Presentation from the Veterans' Agency
• Presentation on DWP overpayments
• Electronic case management of DLA
• Issues arising in practice from rollout of Jobcentre Plus

Any other business

Abigail Bremner, Social Policy Officer at CAS, has been seconded to the Scottish Executive for nine months from January 2006. In her absence, Lindsay Isaacs will be covering her duties in relation to the SSSC.

Back to the Scottish Social Security Consortium main page

For more information contact:
Judith Paterson
Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland,
Unit 9, Ladywell
94 Duke Street,
Glasgow G4 0UW
0141 552 3303
email jpaterson@cpagscotland.org.uk

Abigail Bremner
Citizens Advice Scotland
Spectrum House
2 Powderhall Road
Edinburgh EH7 4GB
0131 550 1000
email bremnera@cas.org.uk