Scottish Social Security Consortium

Minutes of meeting 22nd November 2004

Present:
Abigail Bremner Citizens Advice Scotland
John Dickie Child Povery Action Group
Louise Dobbie Scottish Poverty Information Unit
Susan Drew Highland Advice and Information Network
Louise Goulbourne Citizens Advice Scotland
Kate Higgins Capability Scotland
Gwen McGowan One Plus (Financial Literacy project)
Stephanie Millar Update
Derek Sinclair Contact a Family
Jo Whitfield The Action Group

Peter Glen Jobcentre Plus

Introductions
John welcomed everyone to the meeting.

Back to work initiatives

Peter Glen, who works in the Lanarkshire and East Dunbartonshire district of Jobcentre Plus, introduced himself. He passed round a number of documents relating to support for claimants returning to work [copies of which can be requested from Abigail Bremner]. He noted that the Labour Market statistics were confidential and therefore not to be circulated outside the meeting.

New Deal
Peter noted that in the past there had been active encouragement from Jobcentre staff to move people onto incapacity benefit rather than unemployment benefit. The same applied to lone parents in that they were encouraged onto income support rather than unemployment benefit. The legacy of this was that the numbers currently claiming IB or IS (on the basis that they were lone parents) dwarfed those on jobseekers’ allowance. New Deal programmes aimed to encourage these groups to get work. It was noted that the Jobcentre now had more adverts for job vacancies than they did people claiming JSA.

Pathways to work – IB
Only initial results were currently available for the IB Pathways to work pilots (with one taking place in the Renfrewshire, Inverclyde and Argyll area). However, these indicate that the pilot is being successful in getting IB claimants into work. The DWP recognises that it is also important that such jobs are sustainable, therefore the pilot is also tracking how long people stay in employment.

The key elements of Pathways to work are as follows:

• Compulsory work-focussed interviews for new IB claimants
• Access to the ‘Condition Management Programme’ which gives access to rehabilitation services (generally NHS) to help claimants manage their conditions
• Access to a Return to work credit of £40 per week for the first year of a new job (for those earning £15,000 a year or less). Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit are not affected by this payment. The payment is also ignored for tax credits purposes (Tax Credits (Definition and Calculation of Income) Regulations 2002 (SI No. 2006) Reg 4 (4) Table 1, para 14A – as amended).

[Note that a helpful summary of the IB Pathways to Work pilots is available from CPAG’s Welfare Rights Bulletin 177 (December 2003) – www.cpag.org.uk]

Susan raised a problem she had encountered where starting work has been used as a reason to supersede a DLA decision. Although this was wrong and it had been challenged as such, it raised issues of suspicion and lack of trust among claimants. Peter agreed that this was incorrect. He explained that now all DWP staff have access to the computer records of a claimant. This means that anyone from any agency could see that someone had started work. What has probably happened is that someone in the Disability and Carer’s Directorate has seen this and wrongly believed it was grounds to supersede the decision.

Peter noted that it was also important to build good relationships with employers in Pathways to Work areas – not least because in the past some employers have deliberately abused Government support schemes by creating unsustainable jobs.

Other support for those moving from benefits into work

• Job Grant – this was available from 25th Oct 2004. It was a tax-free payment (no impact on tax credit entitlement). It is available to those who take up full time work of at least 16 hrs per week (or where a partner is going into work of at least 24 hrs per week) where they have previously been claiming IS, JSA, IB and/or SDA for 26 weeks. £100 is available for single people or couples without children. £250 is available to lone parents and couples with children. Note that the DWP state that entitlement is calculated automatically, so claimants do not need to apply separately for a Job Grant. But see point below – it may still be necessary to ensure that the DWP has been told that a claimant has stopped claiming benefits because they’ve started working. Note that the Job Grant replaces the Lone Parent Run On, which stopped on 25th October.
• Housing Benefit Run On – Note that this also covers Council Tax Benefit. It is payable where someone has been claiming IS or ib-JSA for 26 weeks and they have started full-time work (or they or their partner’s hours or wages have increased so that they are no longer claiming IS/JSA) which is expected to last for at least five weeks. The housing benefit run on allows housing and council tax benefit to be paid at the same rate as they were while the claimant was on benefit for the first four weeks of a new job. Again, the DWP state that entitlement is calculated automatically, but Jobcentre Plus need written confirmation (which can be done in the relevant space on the UB40-equivalent booklet) that someone has stopped claiming because they’ve moved into work.
• Back to work bonus – this is payable to those on IS/JSA (inc. contribution based) when they move from part-time to full-time work (or reach age 60/65). The bonus can be worth up to £1,000 and is calculated on the basis of earnings during the benefit claim. The back to work bonus was abolished in October 2004, but remains payable to those with existing entitlement up until January 2005. Claims must be made within 12 weeks of signing off.
• Child Maintenance Bonus/Child Maintenance Premium – The Child Maintenance Bonus is a bonus that can be built up by those who receive IS or ib-JSA who also receive maintenance payments for a child. The bonus can be accrued at up to £5 per week and can be worth £1,000. It can be claimed when someone moves into work of at least 16 hrs per week (or a partner moves into work of at least 24 hrs per week). The Child Maintenance Bonus is being phased out by the DWP, but a number of claimants have entitlement at the moment. You cannot qualify for a Child Maintenance Bonus if you qualify for a Child Maintenance Premium instead. This will apply to people who get a £10 disregard on their IS claim in relation to maintenance payments (generally those claiming after March 2003 and/or being assessed under Child Support Agency new rules). [We await clarification from the DWP as to whether it will apply to those who are claiming IS and Child Tax Credit].

There are also a number of schemes running locally to support claimants back into work. These vary from region to region, so you can contact you Jobcentre Plus District manager to find out what they are. In Lanarkshire and East Dunbartonshire, the following are in place:

• Co-operation between Jobcentre Plus and local enterprise companies (Enterprise Lanarkshire etc.)
• Skills for Growth – a scheme providing year-long intensive support and training for 180 IB claimants.
• Routes 2 – basic skills training involving cooperation between Jobcentre Plus, local authorities, other literacy training initiatives and Scottish Enterprise.
• Working for Families Fund – North Lanarkshire get £3 million this year and next towards support getting work for anyone with a family.

New Deal developments
The new Jobcentre Plus region Ayrshire, Dumfries and Galloway and Inverclyde will be a pilot area for new developments to the New Deal initiative. The details for what this will entail are not yet finalised, but it is likely to be based on a model which gives individual districts more flexibility in the support they put in place and the way they use national schemes in order to plug local gaps. This will build on the regional work which is already taking place (described above).

The group questioned the success of the New Deal for Disabled People, which was particularly concerning given the Government’s recent focus on IB and the need to cut claimants. Peter accepted that the New Deal for Disabled People had not been very successful: however, other initiatives would hopefully provide the necessary support.

The group also raised concerns about Jobcentre Plus cuts, including moves towards a telephone service. This raised access issues for people in rural areas, as well as for disabled people, who may have problems accessing telephone services. It was considered that providing a telephone service may not be compatible with the Disability Discrimination Act. Peter’s view was that, although telephone contact would be the primary mode of contact, people could still access services at a local office and through their personal adviser. He stated that customers who came into local offices would still have their queries dealt with, even where it was about something outwith the remit of a personal adviser (eg. payment problems).

Derek noted that as part of the New Deal for Lone Parents, it had previously been suggested that there would be compulsory action plans arrising from work-focussed interviews. He asked whether this could be confirmed. Peter stated that his understanding was that this was to be the case, although he had no up-to-date information.

Minutes of Previous meeting

These were agreed.

In relation to the transfer of IS/JSA claimants onto Child Tax Credit as described at the last meeting, it was noted that this would in all likelihood not be happening until next financial year,

Information exchange

Jobcentre Plus cut backs
A number of group members highlighted cutbacks in Jobcentre Plus services as a issue. Feedback from the DWP had been that services would remain accessible as most people would be able to use the telephone to make a claim. For those that could not use the telephone for whatever reason, support could be provided face-to-face at an interview with a personal adviser. It was also noted that The Pension Service was undergoing major ‘modernisation’ involving the rationalisation of pension centres and staff numbers.

Susan Drew had written a letter to the District Manager of Jobcentre Plus in Highland (and Islands and the Clyde Coast), highlighting concerns about less accessible services. She had also written to the Pension Service. This was a particular issue in Highland as services were already spread thinly in geographical terms, so any cut backs will really affect access and service delivery. She had also contacted local MPs, one of whom (John Thurso, Liberal Democrat) had responded particularly favourably and has arranged a meeting with the DWP minister.

ACTION: It was agreed that the Scottish Social Security Consortium should write to the Scotland-wide Jobcentre Plus manager highlighting concerns about the cut backs. Abi agreed to draft a letter which would be circulated to group members. Those who wanted to could add the names of their organisations to the letter. Susan would forward copies of the letters she had sent as templates. It was also agreed that this letter could be sent to all Scottish MPs.

Motability
Motability have now stated that they will accept applications for vehicles for those with 12 month DLA awards. Their contracts have a three month grace period at the end of an award to make payment arrangements or sort out a new/renewal claim.

Housing Benefit – benefit periods
Susan reported that Highland Council were not recognising the abolition of benefits periods in relation to HB claims. The council also did not appear to be backdating HB and CTB claims on the back of a pension credit award.

Tax Credit overpayments
Derek highlighted that these had been a big issue for him recently, especially cases of official error. He noted that, where mistakes had been made by clients in the information they had supplied to the Inland Revenue, the IR were refusing to make top-up payments, regardless of hardship.

Incapacity Benefit reforms
Kate highlighted that Disability Agenda Scotland (Capability Scotland, Enable, RNIB, RNID and SAMH) would be campaigning on the Government’s IB reform plans whatever they are. Other consortium members were welcome to join in the campaign.

She was currently preparing a briefing for MPs highlighting some common mis-understandings about IB.

ACTION: It was agreed that Kate would circulate the briefing to the group when it was available. Any organisation interested in adding their name to the brief could then get back to her.

It was noted that the TUC had recently produced a report which contradicted a lot of the Government line on IB. [http://www.tuc.org.uk/economy/tuc-8754-f0.cfm]

Scottish Poverty Information Unit
The Scottish Poverty Information Unit was carrying out research on transitions to work from benefits. She also highlighted a Scottish Association of Law Centres conference called ‘Rights into Reality’ (which took place on 29th November).

Financial Literacy
As part of One Plus’s financial literacy project, Gwen was developing a leaflet about the help available to those moving into work. Susan Drew noted that she was working on a similar leaflet. Gwen’s project was also developing leaflets on further education, credit unions, opening bank accounts and credit reference agencies.

Benefits changes
Susan Drew noted that she was working on a six-monthly update of changes to benefits provision, which she would circulate to group members when it was finished.

Challenging tax credit decision on hardship grounds
Following discussion with the group at the last meeting, Jo had recently challenged a decision to recover a tax credits overpayment on the grounds of hardship. She had included a full income and expenditure breakdown and was awaiting a response.

CPAG conference
John asked group members for suggestions for topics for next year’s welfare benefits conference (taking place in June 2005). The following were suggested:

• A workshop on tax credits – looking at issues raised by migration of IS claimants, or an opportunity to comment on (or at least find out about) proposals to improve the contents of tax credit award letters.
• Child Trust Funds – interesting angles for this topic included looking at how to get more products on offer from the social sector (credit unions, friendly societies); the advice issues raised (non-regulated organisations cannot offer financial advice, but they can do financial literacy work).
• Incapacity Benefit – looking at the proposals for reform – about which more would be known by the time of the conference.

John also highlighted a case about overpayments, which has fundamentally changed the settled case law in the area – CIS/4348/2003. An extract follows of the CPAG summary follows:

‘The commissioners hold that, if a claimant fails to disclose information or evidence they are aware of and that has been unambiguously requested by the DWP then any resultant overpayment is recoverable – even if the mental capacity of the claimant meant that they did not understand the request for information or that the information would affect benefit entitlement.’

The facts of the case involved a claimant whose children had been taken into care. She informed the DWP of this fact over a year later resulting in an overpayment of almost £5,000. It was argued that the overpayment was not recoverable as she had learning difficulties and, while she could read, she did not understand the meaning of the instructions on her order book.

It is expected that the claimant will request leave to appeal to the Court of Appeal. In the meantime, CPAG suggests advisers dealing with appeals involving a ‘failure to disclose’ issue should consider requesting an adjournment.

Test cases
CPAG was also working on its ability to take test cases in relation to Scottish claimants. Their expertise has previously been in relation to English cases. Abi suggested that the seizure of benefits/tax credits in bank accounts as part of a ‘bank arrestment’ would be one area to look at. Citizens Advice Scotland has an advocate’s opinion suggesting that a case could be made to challenge this practice. However, CAS was not in a position to bring test cases.

Tax credit courses
CPAG would be offering the following tax credits courses over the next few months:

• Tax credit overpayments – 9th December
• Challenging tax credit decisions – 20th January
• Tax credits – calculating awards – 15th February

Topics for future meetings

Housing Benefit
It was agreed to organise a speaker on recent HB changes for the next meetings. Issues to cover included changes to benefits periods (and the impact of this on other benefits); the verification framework and the way it is used by local authorities (especially the way payments are classified as fraudulent) and the interaction between HB and tax credits.

Incapacity Benefit
IB was suggested as a topic for a future meeting once more about the reform plans were known.

Dates of next year’s meetings

The dates are as follows:

• Wednesday 16th February, 1pm-3.30pm, CPAG offices in Glasgow
• Tuesday 10th May, 1pm-3.30pm, CAS offices in Edinburgh
• Thursday 29th September, 1pm-3.30pm, CPAG offices in Glasgow
• Monday 21st November, 1pm-3.30pm, CAS offices in Edinburgh

Back to the Scottish Social Security Consortium main page

For more information contact:
Judith Paterson
Child Poverty Action Group in Scotland,
Unit 9, Ladywell
94 Duke Street,
Glasgow G4 0UW
0141 552 3303
email jpaterson@cpagscotland.org.uk

Abigail Bremner
Citizens Advice Scotland
Spectrum House
2 Powderhall Road
Edinburgh EH7 4GB
0131 550 1000
email bremnera@cas.org.uk